Introducing Vangile
In this episode of The World Vegan Travel Podcast. we’re joined by the remarkable Vangile Makwakwa. Vangile is a passionate Black female vegan traveler who has journeyed through uncharted territories and carries a deep understanding of ancestral money trauma. As a solo explorer, she’ll share her captivating experiences, from her travels to South Africa, Mexico, and beyond, to the challenges and joys of being a black woman on the road. Vangile’s insights and wisdom are sure to inspire and enlighten our listeners.
In this episode, you’ll discover the world through the eyes of Vangile, a seasoned black female vegan traveler. Gain profound insights into addressing ancestral money trauma and how it affects one’s relationship with finances. Explore her personal journey of overcoming financial ancestral trauma and shifting her mindset. Delve into the challenges and joys of being a black solo traveler, and learn valuable strategies for a safe and enriching travel experience. Vangile’s tales of her adventures in South Africa, Mexico, and other countries will ignite your wanderlust and provide you with practical tips for exploring diverse cultures. You’ll also find inspiration in her stories of spontaneous decisions and the kindness of strangers met along the way. Don’t miss this captivating episode with a truly extraordinary traveler.
In this episode we discuss:
- Meet Vangile Makwakwa: A Black Female Vegan Traveler
- An Uncharted Journey: Vangile’s Solo Adventures
- Insights on Ancestral Money Trauma and Its Impact
- Overcoming Financial Ancestral Trauma: Vangile’s Journey
- Navigating Challenges and Experiencing Joy as a Black Solo Traveler
- Valuable Strategies for Safe and Enriching Travel
- Tales of Adventures in South Africa, Mexico, and Beyond
- Practical Tips for Immersing in Diverse Cultures
- Inspiring Stories of Spontaneous Decisions and Kindness from Strangers
Learn more about what we talk about
- Living in the US as a black female from South Africa.
- Learn more about how to heal from money trauma.
- Living and traveling in Europe and Asia.
Other World Vegan Travel content connected with this episode
- Sri Lanka Unveiled: Vegan Travel, Yoga, and Transformation | Alexander Keil | Ep 131
- Diving Deep into Bali: Vegan Experiences and Cultural Insights | Brett Robertson | Ep 129
- Travel Hacking 101 – The Basics | David Goudreau | Ep 101
- Travel for Weeks With Just a Carry-On | Kim Giovacco | Ep 112
Connect with Vangile
Transcript
Brighde: Hello Vangile. Welcome to the World Vegan Travel Podcast.
Vangile: Thank you so much for having me on the podcast, Brighde.
Brighde: I am so excited to have you on here, talking about travel from a perspective that we haven’t really focused on too much in the podcast before. And that really is, like basically, what it’s like to travel as a solo black woman traveler, and I think this is going to be such an interesting topic for everyone to listen to, no matter their heritage or their color, or anything like that. But before we do that Vangile, would you mind taking a moment just to tell us what it is that you do in the vegan space, or in the online space, in your work you don’t focus on so much about vegan stuff, but you are vegan yourself, right?
Vangile: Yes, I am. Actually, a lot of people say that I don’t focus on the vegan stuff, but, I run international retreats, and all my retreats are vegan. So, like, the diet is vegan. So that’s when people get introduced to veganism. And a lot of my clients actually end up going vegan because they see the link between being vegan and just like healing the body, right?
That being said, what I do, is I help women of color heal ancestral money trauma, so they can fall in love with their bank accounts, increase income, and live their best lives.
Brighde: I would love it if you wouldn’t mind talking a little bit about what you mean by, like, financial trauma. This is something that my sister-in-law, who is, Inuit, she’s part of the indigenous group here in Canada, and she’s done a lot of work trying to heal herself from, as she calls it, financial trauma. Can you talk a little bit about that, specifically, in the black women space?
Vangile: Yes, so I love that you also asked about that because I think all of us carry ancestral money trauma, but I think that there’s unique money trauma that is carried by groups that have experienced certain types of oppression throughout history, and of course, black women in particular, right? But when we talk of trauma, it can be small things, right? It’s events that our ancestors could not process that somehow involved money or involved business, involving them being able to earn a higher income or save more money. And so over time, that trauma is passed down from generation to generation because it was never ever processed because trauma lives in the body. And we pass down our emotions and memories as humans from one generation to the next. That’s why most of us, I’m sure I’ve heard a lot of people, I’m not a mom yet, but I’ve heard a lot of moms say that it’s just, you just intuitively know what to do with the baby at times, you know? And so that is coming from our ancestral knowledge. So we have ancestral wisdom and we also carry trauma, and some of these things we overlook, right? So when I talk of money trauma, people are like, yes, my mother used to shout about us not having enough money, but they don’t think of the small things and the stories that are carried around money from one generation to the next, and sometimes where they started. So when it comes to black women, our trauma is also linked to the fact that we are often perceived in a particular manner by society. You’ll hear people say that we need to work twice as hard to get half of what white women have, or what white men have, right? And often we’re not even seeing that as a trauma. The fact that you have to change your identity, and change who you are. And of course, there’s the history of slavery, there’s the history of colonization. In my case also, the history of slavery, colonization, and about it being from South Africa. So all of those things kind of like merge. Ancestrally, we carry that knowledge. And as women in particular, there’s also the history of patriarchy. The fact that this is the first time in maybe our parent’s generation, at least my parent’s generation, that women could even imagine earning the same amount as men. Like we, we don’t even earn the same amount, but just imagine it, right? That we could one day, maybe demand and negotiate the same kind of paycheck. Not that we get that now. I’m very aware of it. But that in itself is traumatic. We are doing the same amount of labor, and we can, in most countries around the world, expect to make 70 or 80 cents to the dollar of whatever men make. That in itself is a trauma that we carry, which then breeds this wound of not being enough. And always feeling like you need to work extra hard. You’re not doing enough. So we end up doing so much more for money. And that gives the impression that we need to work hard for money. We don’t understand why we can’t hold on to money. And often, with the trauma that we carry, especially as black women or women in general, is that we tend to mistake or conflate systemic violence with personal shortcomings. Healing trauma is equally as important. That’s why I do this work. But sometimes we need to start looking at how systems of oppression intersect with trauma and lead to trauma. Sometimes, breathe the very trauma that we’re trying to heal from. So yeah, that’s, my work is very layered in that regard.
Brighde: Yeah, it really does. I’m curious, is this something that you’ve also overcome? Is this something that you’ve also had to work hard at to not only overcome that financial ancestral trauma, financial trauma, but also be able to teach others about it and help others overcome it as well?
Vangile: Yes.
Brighde: That must have been quite a process for you.
Vangile: Yes, I mean totally, Brighde. How I came to do this work, just to give people a perspective, I have a finance honors degree from the University of Cape Town in South Africa. Then I went to the U. S. to do my MBA and focus on entrepreneurship and strategy. And then I graduated in Boston, Massachusetts, and it was a happy time. I should be happy, I should be excited. I was like, I finally have my MBA. Granted, I wasn’t the first in my family to even receive an international master’s degree or Ph.D., so it wasn’t like, I mean, it was still a big deal because it’s always a big deal when you graduate, but I was like, okay, cool. This means that I’m going to be able to earn a six-figure income. And I remember just sitting there with my friends and hearing how much they had negotiated after the MBA program with these financial services companies. And I was like, okay, now my turn. Let me go get a job and negotiate a salary. And, I kid you not, a month or two after graduation, I started having panic attacks with money. Every time I had to go to an ATM to withdraw money, I’d have a panic attack. Every time I touched money, I started having a panic attack. I could not go to the grocery store and pay for things. Paying for milk, buying bread, it didn’t matter the amount of money. And I would be talking to friends about money. Just the idea of talking about money. I could feel a panic attack coming on until it got so bad, I could no longer get out of bed. I was so depressed. I couldn’t get out of bed. And part of the depression was the shame, right? It took me, I remember one day when I was on this healing journey, realizing that, actually, my depression was a shame that I could not process because I thought, Oh my God, there’s something wrong with me. Everyone around me is able to deal with money, and I can’t even go buy milk without having a panic attack and hyperventilating. I can’t go to the ATM without worrying about money. On top of that, I had all these student loans, obviously Sally May in the US. I was drowning in credit card debt. I was 60, 000 dollars in debt, and I was like, I’m not even 28 yet. What am I going to do? So there I am thinking that this is unique to me, which is how I came to do this work. Because one day a friend of mine was like, Van, are you sure this is all yours or it’s ancestral as well? Right?
Brighde: So, it was such a profound, profound realization for me, because I was like, wow. And so that’s how I came to do this work, because I was like, okay, let me see where I get this because my response was so physically visceral. I started off with affirmations and visualization, because that’s what everyone told me to do, and I got worse. My depression just got worse and worse and worse. What I don’t understand is that at times there are people for whom affirmations and visualization don’t work because what is often happening is that you are gaslighting that part of yourself that is in pain. So sometimes those parts of you that are in trauma, start to fight you because they feel unheard. So I did not know that my psyche was one of those psyches, you know? And then my inner child and my inner teen were like, you are not listening to us. That’s because I had observed my mom and my uncle go through feast and famine, feast and famine, and growing up in my household, I realized that I had felt the deep, deep angst of being without money. Like growing up, I’d see my uncle make about 5, 000 dollars a month, and I’d see my mom make lots and lots of money, and then I’d see them lose it. So there would be this constant, people are making lots of money, and then when we lose the money, there’s absolutely nothing. And then it’s like deep survival, then you make lots and lots of money, and then back to nothing. So, my nervous system was constantly in this state of like, oh my gosh. And also observing how like, when you don’t have that money, you lose a lot of things, in terms of your privileges, right? And that’s deeply traumatic because we don’t talk a lot about class privilege. So, yeah.
Vangile: So what I noticed on my healing journey, what that had done to my nervous system, was it created this hypervigilance around money. Like, I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Anything to do with money, whenever I touched money or interacted with money, all those memories were triggered. Not only that, I had observed violence within my family. So this was so crazy because there would be booms and busts, but then when people did have money, other family members would have envy and jealousy and it would give rise to this, you think you’re better than us because you have money. You think that you can boss us around because you have money. Right? So it was always like this thing where like I had seen money cause so much friction. So little me, teen me, and child me, wanted money because there were all these perks around having money. Right? But I’d also, when the money was there, little me and team me also saw how I was excluded by family members and also judged for my parents having money and all sorts of things. It was a crazy setup, like, why do you guys go to private schools? Why do you have access to this? All this stuff, but also at the same time, it’s like, I want the money and I don’t want the money. As an adult, I was stuck in the space of, being doomed if I had money and doomed if I didn’t have money, so I didn’t know what to do. So my nervous system was literally glitching, really, really glitching. So every time I handled money, my nervous system was going like, what do I want? It’s not safe to have it. It’s not safe to be without it. So it was like being in this state of absolute limbo with money. And I was terrified of money, terrified to talk about money.
Brighde: Yeah, that sounds like a really painful thing to go through, and as you were talking, I don’t have the exact same story as you, but I think many of us, have a challenged relationship with money, and we don’t talk about it very much. I would love, if you wouldn’t mind, sharing some of your experiences, as a black solo traveler, because, you know, it’s not something that I have much experience with at all, of course, as a white woman. So, can you share your personal journey, and what inspired you to become a vegan traveler, a black, female traveler?
Vangile: Well, growing up in a household that I was growing up in, right, with the feast and famine, and just money always being top of mind, I started having this insatiable desire to travel. I just wanted to get out. I guess it’s like, you know, in the movies where you see the girls and they’re like, I just need to leave the small town. For me, it’s like, I just need to leave these people. I’m related to them. The only way I can do it is travel, right? And I just want to leave the trauma. So at first it was, I traveled really to escape myself and to escape the situation that I was in at home. So that’s what inspired me. So I started traveling by 2005 before it was even fancy to travel, pre-Airbnb. I was at varsity and I’d be like hopping on buses, I’d be crossing borders. One of the first things I did when I got to university was to get a passport, and I would just keep going over to the border. I remember I went to Namibia on my own. I went to different countries. When I went to Swaziland, I went to different cities in South Africa, and I started staying at hostels because hostels had just become the in thing. I was like, no, I’m not that kind of traveler. And then I got a job on a cruise line, and I left for the US, and I worked in the Bahamas for a while in the Caribbean. And then from there I was able to save up enough money, and then I moved over to England. I moved to London and became a bar lady. Didn’t really take to it. A few months later I moved to Trinidad and Tobago and stayed there for a while. Moved back to England, then went to the Czech Republic, and moved back to the US. I think after a while it just became normal for me because I was just no longer stationed in a particular area, and I think because I was so young, you know. I just started becoming a nomad and it became part of my life, right? So, now it’s what I do. So I’ve been traveling for like 18 years, and it’s just the thing that I do now. You know, I just move countries all the time. I’ve built up a big network around the world. I know so many different people. I think why it was so easy for me to do, is, I honestly say, it’s because when you’re at university, you don’t have a place of your own. You haven’t got a job yet, you don’t have a car, you don’t have bills. So because I didn’t have bills, I didn’t have anything, I could just pack and leave. And I think once something becomes your lifestyle, it’s just a thing. And what I loved is that South Africa’s history is also very, very complicated, and very filled with racism, sexism, and all that stuff. I was just like… I just want to be able to just discover myself outside of my history and I realized that as I was traveling in my own country, I’d never felt safe as a black woman. And then in other countries, I realized that I could feel safe, right? The only other country that gave me pause was the USA, right? But I feel like, every other person of color can say the same thing, right? It was like, when I arrived in America, I was like, okay, this is something I’m very well versed with, and I’m not loving it. You know, like, I remember this feeling, I get it, it’s not really vibing with me, but many other countries, I just arrived, and my nervous system felt healed. I remember the first time I started walking into restaurants in Asian countries and, Oh my gosh, just being in the Caribbean, I’d walk into restaurants and I felt like I was a human being. Johannesburg is so much better now, but back then it was still like people were still trying to figure things out. And then I’d been in Cape Town and at that point it was even just super hectic. And it was like, if you sit at a restaurant, you have to, you could sometimes just be treated as less than human just for walking in and existing. So that’s why I fell in love with traveling because I was like, wow, this is so interesting. I get to experience myself as a human being first, before any of the other traumas. I can just be me, and figure myself out, and feel safe, you know? I remember living in South Korea, and It was the first time in my life that I would jog at 2 a.m. in the morning. By then, I’d lived in the U.K., I’d lived in the U. S., I’d lived in different countries, and I had never known that there was a place in the world where women could jog in the early hours of the morning and be constantly okay without any fear for their lives. So I was like, wow, there are places where we get to be safe. This is what inspires me and inspires me to just keep traveling.
Brighde: Thank you so much for sharing all of that, Vangile. That was so interesting and eye-opening for me to hear your stories. Can you tell me, like, where it is that you are right now, and maybe what the past year of travel has been like for you? Just so our listeners can get a bit of a sense of, your approach of travel.
Vangile: Okay, so, the last year I was in Mexico, so this is just the last 12 months, as I lived in Puerto Escondido, in Mexico, then I left for Costa Rica, then left for Panama, came back to South Africa for a little while, for just like a month or so. I came here to see family then went to Mauritius for about a week or two. Then came back to South Africa for a few more months because I was writing my book. Then I’ve been to Vietnam and Thailand and now I’m back in South Africa. I’m currently in South Africa. So I would say I’ve spent about I spent six months in South Africa, and then six months traveling, although, because I’m taking it from a year, right, if it was 18 months, I would have said, like, I’d spent another six months in just Mexico, in Puerto Escondido. Because I am learning Spanish and just immersing myself in Mexican culture. I’m obsessed with Spanish, like, I love it.
Brighde: Wow, so it sounds to me that you are kind of moving fairly frequently considering this is like your full-time lifestyle. You’re not spending one or two years in a place. You are just moving from place to place. I guess you’re working on your business as well as immersing yourself in the culture, the language, and the amazing things there are to do and see.
Is that correct?
Vangile: I mean, part of it is, it’s very interesting traveling on a South African passport, as opposed to a passport from a so-called first world country, is like, I think, it’s a blessing and a curse and both, but I think it’s more of a blessing, right? In most countries you’re required, because you come from an African country, you’re only given a certain amount of time on a visa, and then you’re required to prove proof of income, etc, etc, right? Most countries will, on a South African passport, actually give you 30 days to 3 months. Some of them will even give you 6 months to stay, right? But, the hassle of having to organize a long-term visa sometimes isn’t worth it when I look at it, because I’m like, then there are many countries in the world, let me just hop on to the next country. Granted, countries like Costa Rica and Panama, are very welcoming, they’ll give you a three-month visa on arrival, so no problems, but some countries will only give you less time on the visa, right? And so I have to do visa runs, and so for me, I would just rather move countries and move to the next country. Why I say I found that to be a blessing, is that I have literally been able to explore countries that I had never ever considered on the map, didn’t even know existed, because once I land in one particular country, maybe I have like a three-month visa, then someone will talk to me like I’ll meet friends and people will be like, “Hey, have you ever considered this country? Have you ever heard of this country?” You know, like recently, one of my friends this morning, was sending me stuff on Mongolia, and I’m like, what? She was like, have you ever considered Mongolia? And people are sending me things on Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan and all these things. And it’s like, you would never consider those countries, but then you find that they are visa-friendly for your passport. And because not a lot of countries, outside of Western countries, are very, very visa-friendly, right? So that’s why I also keep moving because I’m like, well, this country will let me in. Let me go. Let me keep exploring. So that’s why I keep moving, and it’s opened up my world in so, so many ways. So yeah, long answer to a very short question.
Brighde: No, that’s a great answer. Thank you. So navigating new territories and new places can be intimidating for anyone, regardless of their background. So what strategies do you use to overcome the unique challenges and barriers faced as a black female solo traveler? I mean, you’ve touched on a few already, but I’d love to hear anything else on that topic that you would love to share.
Vangile: Yeah, so I think, the huge thing because I’m often traveling to countries where people do not speak my language, right? Firstly, I speak, well now I speak Spanish, so like, that’s lovely. Often for me, the big thing, firstly, being vegan, and you don’t speak the language, sometimes the menu, this is just the most basic thing, the menu is not in English, so you don’t know how to, and most people don’t always understand what veganism is. So, food is literally the very first thing that I have to sort out. So, Happy Cow has been my savior. The app Happy Cow. I don’t even go vegetarian options because I’m just like until I learn the basics of what food is, that’s the first thing. So one of the first things I try to do is learn the basics of how to pronounce food, how to say I am vegan, how to explain what I don’t eat, because what I eat is a wide range of things, believe it or not. Most people are like, what do vegans eat, but it’s like every vegetable on the planet, all fruit, coconut milk, almond milk, all those things. But the first thing just through the process of elimination, just learn how to say the things that you don’t eat. I remember when I first landed in South Korea, I was staying in a town called Hongseong. I arrived and I could not figure, I would go look at the milk and I was like, I don’t know how to say soya milk. So I use the app a lot. Then I learned how to write basic Korean, which is not as hard as people think. So if I’m going to be at a place, there are some countries like Thailand where I’ve used it as a base for two years. Well, I’ve not always been in the country for two years, but I love to have a base where I come in and out. I have an apartment and then I do a short-term rental or Airbnb when I’m out of the country. So really looking for a landlord that is understanding of my lifestyle, and where I can then negotiate long-term rental. So the challenge with that is finding a landlord that is willing to rent to you for three months versus a year. Everybody would rather have a long-term tenant than a short-term tenant. I’m someone who owns property myself in South Africa, I do Airbnb, I do long-term rentals with my tenants, and if I’ve got an apartment for a long-term rental, that’s what I would prefer. So negotiating, and means being willing to pay a higher fee, right? But knowing that it’s still cheaper than a hotel or Airbnb. I think one of the things is also just finding your way around, paying electricity bills, paying water bills, and then the big thing that I think we often don’t talk about as travelers, but that I see there’s a more and more of a conversation happening in the nomadic space, is relationships. It is like building friendships with people. Every time I leave a country, I leave friends behind. Right? I leave a community behind. I leave people behind. And every time I have to start over, that can sometimes be extremely lonely. So one of the things that I’ve had to do, is build an online community so that when I move, I feel like I have plugged into something. That is one of the biggest things, is like, how do I integrate into the culture, right? How do I get to know the locals? I’m one of those travelers that doesn’t really stay with the expats and the nomads. I always live with the locals and I always know the locals in the community, and I love that. But that means that I have to quickly learn about what’s happening politically in the country, understanding many different nuances about the culture, that means reading up on certain things, getting to talk to local coffee owners, going to coffee shop owners, going to bakeries, to sit at restaurants, just to get to know people. And that often means working past my reservations as a solo traveler, right? And you’re a woman. I feel like I’m now completely immune. I’m one of those people, I eat out on my own often. I go out and have coffee on my own. It just doesn’t affect me. I’ve been doing this since like my teens as a traveler, right?
It sounds like you get the opportunity to put yourself out of your comfort zone a little bit. Whenever we put ourselves out of our comfort zone, that is when we have exponential growth, I find not too far out of our comfort zone, but you know, something that’s, that’s manageable. I think when we keep inside our comfort zone, that will limit us in terms of our growth.
Brighde: So I would love it if you wouldn’t mind sharing some specifics of maybe your most memorable travel experiences and how they shaped your perspective in the world as a black female vegan traveler.
Vangile: Oh my gosh. Most memorable?
Brighde: I’m sure you have so many.
Vangile: I was living in the UK, I had been dating a guy when I was in Florida on the cruise ship, we’d been together, and he was Trinidadian. When I left the cruise ship, he left before me, then I left the cruise ship and went to London to work and to travel. We realized that we missed each other, and connected, he applied, at the time South Africans needed visas to Trinidad, which we no longer do, but he applied for a visa for me to go to Trinidad. As I was about to board the flight, something said, check your emails, this was the day before instant SMS and WhatsApp, so I went on, and this was also the day of Airpods and laptops and internet cafes. So I go into the internet cafe at the airport. I’m looking at my laptop. I go into the PC and I am, checking my emails, and I have been dumped. I have a ticket to Trinidad. I’ve packed my bags in London. I’ve given up my apartment. I have no place to live. The only thing to do, oh, and by the way, because at the time, I’m so young and trusting relationships and I’m in love, right? He had said he would organize a place for us to live. I don’t have to worry about someone picking me up at the airport. Nothing. So I would just arrive in Tobago. We would have a romantic getaway. Then we would go to Trinidad, right? He has a house in Trinidad. So then I was like, okay, fantastic. Look at my emails. He’s like, you’ll be alright. You’re strong. I wish you well on your journey. What? I literally booked a hostel. Seriously, I booked a hostel. I’m at Heathrow. There’s no turning back like I’m boarding the flight in a few hours. I booked a hostel in Tobago. I asked them to pick me up. And I’m just like, oh, and by the way, I’ve saved nothing. I am moving countries for like six months. I have 400 pounds to my name. I have no job. I have nothing because he has said I should go over. So, I hop on a flight. I cried on the whole flight, right? Obviously, I’ve just been dumped. I don’t know where I’m going to live. Like, so much is going on in my head. Like, I have no options right now. By the way, I’d been accepted to a bunch of business schools, but I turned them down because I’m in love. I’m choosing to go be with a man, rather than hop on a flight to Boston and go pursue my education. But, this is actually how I ended up in the MBA program because I had no plan. So, the first thing I do when I get to Tobago, is I go and buy a big bottle of whiskey. I don’t even look at the hostel where I’m living, I just go into the hostel. I have a room to myself. I just drink myself into a stupor and fall asleep. Wake up the next day. The first thing I do, is I send a message to Simmons and I’m like, I accept your partial scholarship. I’m coming to do an MBA.
I’m like, plan B, because plan A was that you were going to be with this man in love and everything, and now the universe has shown you flames, so this is now your destiny, you’re going to go get an education, and actually do what your parents would love for you to do, like, be fully independent and educated, so, do the right thing. And then I walk out of this hostel, finally, and I look out. I’m like, let me go have breakfast. I walk out and I have booked paradise. I am right on the beach. I am living on the beach. The ocean is my backyard. I’m like, wow, ’cause I couldn’t see anything the day before through the tears and everything, and then the whiskey, and I didn’t want to talk to people. I just checked in crying and hollering, then I made friends in the neighborhood, and I ended up having the best time ever, touring the whole of Tobago with friends. I get to Trinidad, and literally, two weeks later, I’m on MTV Caribbean. I’m doing my poetry. My life has turned around. And a few weeks later, I get, about two months later, I get offered a job in Woburn Sands, UK. Just outside of London, about two hours outside of London by train. And, I’m doing a waitressing job, but they end up paying for my rent. I’m living in a house with a Jacuzzi, and a full-on cinematic entertainment system. Everything, I buy myself a car, everything just keeps moving forward, and I end up going like a few months later, I end up in the MBA program in Boston. It is insane. That was an entire travel experience. So all of this is happening. I had to call my dad once for financial support, but after that, it’s like money just kind of found me on the journey because I’m performing, I’m doing these things. All this stuff is happening and I’m able to just get myself together, and then the company that hired me for the waitressing job pays for my flight back. They did everything, and I mean, this was one of the nicest houses I’ve ever, ever lived in. I was just thinking about it, like, how I ended up in Sri Lanka, how Sri Lanka is like my second home. So, I was teaching English in South Korea when I had this desire, like I’d been wanting to do a tantra yoga. I ended up doing tantra yoga. One day, I was looking for yoga certifications and I wanted to go to India, right? And I ended up in a tantra yoga program. So this puts me on a path of learning more about tantra and the way of tantra. When I was in South Korea teaching English, I decided to ask if I could just go away for a month. I don’t know how I managed to have 4 months vacation as an English teacher in South Korea, because that really doesn’t happen. You know, but somehow I keep negotiating. My school keeps allowing me to do all these cool things and go on vacation. I got to Sri Lanka, I booked for a guest house, and I never booked guest houses because I love apartments, but since I was going to be in Sri Lanka for a month, I found an apartment online somewhere. So then I’m like, okay, let me book a guest house. Guess what? When I booked this guest house, when I arrived, this woman, by the name of Mangala, we were now so close. And my mom has even gone to Sri Lanka. My brother and my sister have met her. They’ve all gone to Sri Lanka. It’s like this incredible family that I just never knew. She literally said to me, I’ve been praying for like months for South African women to come live at my guest house, and I didn’t know why I was praying like this. She has just been one of the biggest impacts on my journey, you know, like, so much, like, Sri Lanka has become my second home, so much of who I am, is so tied to that, to the point when COVID hit, that’s the country that I chose to shelter in. I was also in Sri Lanka during the bombings, and this was such a crazy experience because my sister was in Sri Lanka with me, and Mangala and I had chosen to go to a different part of the country just to visit and to have downtime. My sister had gone to a different part of the country to go experience other parts of Sri Lanka on her own. And the bombings in Sri Lanka started and we were so petrified. It was like the first experience that I’d ever had of bombings, and I remember Mangala saying to me, and I was freaked out. I was like, oh my God, what’s gonna happen? My parents are just never gonna forgive me if anything happens to my sister because the reason why my sister is here is because of me. One of the things that Mangala said to me that day, that has stayed with me forever, is that it’s not about how you live. She was like, today, she sat me down. She was like, Van, today could be the day when everything ends. When we cease to exist. So we have to choose how we choose to live and leave this world. So every day, you cannot control when your last day on earth is. And this is a very real moment for us. We don’t know where the bombs are. We don’t know what’s happened, where they’ve planted them. We just know that they are going off to different parts of the island. They stopped people from traveling because they had to contain the situation, and we also didn’t have the internet to reach the outside world, outside of Sri Lanka, and that’s the first time I really think I started to learn what it was that I was practicing with Buddhism, you know, so for me, that was one of the most profound experiences. And luckily, because I was already close to Mangala, it was a very chilled experience.She was like, we are going to choose how we leave this world. So you can choose to leave it panicked or we can make peace with the situation as it is and just meditate, and just be okay in that moment.
Brighde: Both of those experiences are kind of intense. And I mean, it sounds like you were able to draw a lot from those experiences, and you know, make the best of them, and to shape you into the way you are.What advice would you give to black women who want to explore the world independently?
Well, I think the first thing is to understand that we cultivate safety within ourselves first. Some countries are more safer than others, and you will feel safer in certain environments, so trust your intuition. So when I’m talking about cultivating safety within ourselves first, it’s that, rely a lot on your intuition. I know people say don’t trust other people, but I have always said, in that Marlon Brando movie, where one of the characters says, I’ve always relied on the kindness of strangers. For me, I found that the kindness of strangers is a very, very real thing. So. First things first, is to understand what is it that you as a person need to feel safe within yourself. That is the very, very first thing that I always ask myself in every country, and those are the things that I make sure I have. Can you give me some examples?
Vangile: Yes. So, for example, I don’t drink past a certain point. I’m not a person who gets super drunk in certain countries, especially if I don’t know people and I’m among strangers, I’ve just met these people. And I’m a woman traveling on my own. Anything can happen, right? So I’m always cognizant of that. And then the first time when I’m in a country, the first thing that I do, is I start to look for landmarks. Let’s say my phone dies or heaven forbid, I leave my phone somewhere and then I can’t get back home. I try to memorize like the streets, try to memorize landmarks so that I know exactly where it is that I live and where it is that I’m going. That’s one of the first things, so that I always have a sense of bearing, especially because I tend to rent scooters, and I go everywhere. Sometimes my battery dies, but just being able to understand where I am, what is the city that I’m in, and what is the landmark, so that when I do get lost, people can direct me. And then also the other thing that I have, is I have this thing where if I’m on a scooter and I’m touring a particular country on a scooter like I’ve done Northern Thailand on a scooter, and I have this thing where I say when it gets stuck, I sleep where I fall, which means that I don’t try to go on my scooter beyond the dock, you know. So if I find myself in whatever town I’m in, even if I’ve booked an Airbnb elsewhere, that is where I’m going to sleep for the night, so that I don’t find myself in awkward situations, again. I am very aware that I am a woman, and everywhere in the world, crazy things happen to women. So I try to do as much as possible during the day. If I’m in a city, New York, London, Seoul, or even Kuala Lumpur, I’m okay being out at night. Not a problem. It’s all part and parcel, but it’s like cities often are awake at night, but small villages, places that I don’t know, just very cognizant of that. And then letting my family know, this is where I am, this is my phone number, and if I have a landlord or an Airbnb host, then I say, this is the number for the Airbnb host. That’s one of the key things as well, so that people often know where I am and where my last location is, even if they don’t always see me, but my siblings will often hear from me on a daily basis. Touch wood, nothing has ever really happened to me in a foreign country. So I feel in many ways, like, oh, I can navigate this. My family’s just on the other end of the phone, so it’s different. So yeah, I hope that helps. And also just when I used to date, now I’m in a committed relationship, but when I used to date, I would also make sure that in a foreign country, I’m not going to someone’s apartment, right off on the first date. I’m sussing out the person. I’m getting to know them. I’m getting to understand who they are. So just take my time, whatever I need to feel physically and emotionally safe.
Brighde: I think that’s such a great idea, like taking some time to think about what is it that I need to do and to have in order to feel most safe, most of the time because something could bubble up no matter what. What are the things that I need to be able to do in order to feel that way? That’s really great advice and I think you’ve shared some really practical tips on how to do that as well. So thank you so much. Another question that I have is like, travel often involves connecting with people with different backgrounds and you’ve already shared some of your more meaningful experiences there. You know, on a general, everyday basis, how do you approach and foster those meaningful cross-cultural exchanges during your journeys? And maybe you can share some experiences.
Vangile: When I was in Mexico, I arrived in Mexico not knowing even, okay, I knew “hola” meant hello, right? But when people were like, “como estas”, I was like, who is “como estas?” What is this? Like, listen, on the African continent, we were not exposed to Spanish. Right? At least in South Africa, not at all, so, I don’t speak Spanish, you know, I’d never heard Spanish until I started traveling in Florida, but even then, it was really one of the most confusing languages that I had ever, ever encountered. I decided that when I moved to Mexico, I am going to live with a Mexican grandma who does not speak a single word of English and only speaks Spanish. And I did that for two months, living in her house. And she would not care that I do not speak Spanish. That’s why I learned Spanish in such a short space of time. People were like, in two months, you’re starting to speak. I was like, I have no option. My survival depended on it because she just kept speaking, making me food, and doing things. It was just such a beautiful experience. And why I’m sharing, this is to say, one of the first things that I do, is I allow myself to be immersed in the culture, the language. I don’t always learn the language, but I allow myself to just be immersed in whatever is happening and then just take my cue from there, and what I found is that I don’t; because I am a guest in the country, I behave as a guest, you know. I’m always just appreciative, I’m always trying to learn more, I ask questions, and I don’t assume that I know more. I listen to what people have to say. Part of why I’ve also learned so much about history in different countries is that I listen to what people are sharing, and I ask questions, and for me, that’s been a big thing. And the other thing that I find is very, very important, is breaking bread with people. When people invite you to come eat with them, like allowing yourself, giving yourself permission to go, and have a feast and eat with people and get to learn more about the food. And I learn about the history of different dishes, and also take cooking classes in quite a lot of countries, and you’ll be shocked by how people really, really appreciate that. And I also learned basic words like thank you, please, hello, how are you in the language, you know, so that helps a lot.
Brighde: I am curious, how did you find that Mexican grandma to live with for two months? How did you track her down?
Vangile: Oh, I actually signed up to a language school, a Spanish language school in Oaxaca, and I asked for them to organize a homestay for me, and they organized her, her name is Patricia, and she is absolutely, absolutely incredible. She told everyone that like Van started speaking in two months. I was like, the part that she missed out, on why I started speaking Spanish in two months, is because she spoke to me every single day. What I understood, really, is that older people are less self-conscious. We tried to find a bonding thing, but what she understood, was the assignment from the school, that people stay at home so that they can speak more Spanish on a daily basis. And she acted as an extension of our teachers. So, when I’d be learning something or studying something from school, she would like to explain it in depth in Spanish as well. So that was really really powerful for me, I think. And something that I really really needed as well, because I was so shy to get things wrong. But, when you need to figure out where to get water, what is jam, you know, or jelly, or, where’s the bread, you need to know how to say that, right? Now, I know that if it was someone that was younger, I could probably, like, go on YouTube. We could do a bunch of things, but here I was forced to just talk, and I was allowed to make so many mistakes, you know, and for me, that was, I think, such an important part of the journey, and I think because I do have a part of me, just like all humans, where you’re scared to be laughed at for making mistakes, but I had to learn to be a beginner, and I understood maybe because my grandmothers were so amazing and so patient that I feel like someone who’s older, and has patience and is very, very chilled, will have patience with me as well, with learning.
Brighde: That’s incredible, I mean it sounds like you just managed to get the perfect person to support you in those first few months of your Spanish learning journey. That’s so, so cool.
Vangile: It’s just been so wonderful to chat with you, get to know you a little bit, and what it’s like sort of traveling in your shoes. It’s just so interesting and I’m sure there are many people who are listening to this that might be interested in exploring their relationship with money and this financial trauma. I know you offer a number of resources and things to help people on their journey. Would you mind sharing a little bit more about those, please?
Yes, so if people are interested in learning more about healing ancestral money trauma and tapping into ancestral money wisdom, I have a free seven-day Tapping Into Ancestral Money Wisdom training. You can check it out at wealthy-money.com, forward slash, training. Again, wealthy-money.com/training. You can also check out my blog, I’ve got over 300 blog posts just on money, trauma, a lot of practical things also for how to increase your credit score, and how to pay off your car bills. How I paid off Sally May, if you’re American, and you’re struggling with student loans. I have been there. You can check out my blog at wealthy-money.com, forward slash, blog. I also have my own podcast, which is the Money Magic Podcast, where I talk a lot about trauma and interview people on trauma, especially ancestral money trauma. So, you can just search for Money Magic Podcast on Apple, Podbean, and Spotify, and you should be able to find the podcast where it’s also up on YouTube. So yeah, lots and lots of free resources for you to get started.
Brighde: And you also mentioned that you have some retreats. I imagine, that doing something in person with you, and some other people going through a similar experience, could be really life-altering as well. Can you talk about those?
Vangile: Yes, so I haven’t hosted retreats the whole of 2023. I’ve been fully immersed in writing my next book, which by the way is out and published. I also publish in Trevor Noah, and how they’ve published all these incredible authors, and how I’ve been on the wall with all the authors, but what I love, is that my book is in between Trevor Noah’s book, and in between a South African woman called Dr. T, and then there’s me right in the middle, and it’s like, oh my god! Look at this, I’m with the greats and there’s a book also that they’ve published with Nelson Mandela, and I’m just like, I cannot believe it, right? This book is really, really awesome. It’s gonna be available internationally. If you are in the US or other countries, I guess, in the US. I know it’s gonna be at Barnes and Noble. You can even ask them to order it. Just ask for my name, and ask them to look it up, and they can order. But, my retreats usually happen in different countries. I haven’t announced retreat dates yet, for 2024. But if you want to learn more about the retreats, you can just go on my website at wealth-money. com. Click on it, there’s a retreats box on there, you can click on there, send me a message, or just shoot me a message by clicking on the contact page, and asking me how I do retreats. The other thing that I am thinking of doing, is individual retreats where people come to me for a week to do something with me, or something that I do with family. So, it would depend on wherever I am in the world, if people want to fly out there. I usually choose beautiful places with really, really beautiful views. So, if people are interested in learning more, they can hit me up. Again, I don’t have any dates. I am in the middle of a book launch and am just excited about that right now.
Brighde: I know those book launching times can be really busy, so I’m not surprised that you’ve put the retreats on hold, but, I invite people who are listening to go and sign up for all of Vangile’s updates and what it is that she’s doing. Vangile, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the World Vegan Travel Podcast.
I really appreciate everything that you’ve had to say and your unique perspective. Thank you so much.
Vangile: you so much, Brighde, and thank you so much to everyone who’s listened. So deeply appreciated.
